Q&A . . . With Richard Bruce

PUBLISHED MARCH 2025

Q: We’ve heard for a decade that many of the jobs of the future don’t even exist yet; how is that impacting trades instruction?
A: Five years ago we were looking at the potential impact of several technologies in the classroom and field that have since been implemented including using welding simulators in the classroom to cut down on the rods used on the real welds, using virtual reality to visualize the design and in training to identify safety issues, exoskeletons to limit muscle strains, drones to enter dangerous places or give us aerial imagery, laser scanning existing conditions or put in place work, field job boxes with electronic plans and 3-D models, modular/pre-fab construction off-site (including plumbing walls), HVAC systems, prison cells, apartments, and wall layout robots. We have seen these applications in the classroom and the field to improve safety, efficiency, and thus improve the bottom line.  

Q: How has the advance in application of digital workplace tools, in construction especially, affected the recruitment of candidates for trades careers—does it require more students who might have previously been inclined to four-year degree programs right out of high school?
A: The applications mentioned above have helped all recruiters relate to high school aged kids who may desire a career with technology. The reality is that with respect to the trades in particular, not all jobs use those tools every day, especially at the entry level. A craftsman will need to return to the craft in which they are acquiring their skills in order to become skilled. In the apprenticeship route, for instance, a candidate would start working with their hands immediately and report to the training center once a month for instruction. They may be exposed to the technology during that training or on the job, but the majority of work is in the craft.  

Q: Is the construction work force in practice becoming more blended—that is, blurring the traditional lines of operational functions between the skilled craftsman on the job site and the person in the home office wearing the business suit?
A: Yes and no. Twenty years ago, the Department of Labor had the superintendent role requiring experience and/or an associate’s degree. So, you saw a lot of field personnel able to advance from lead to foreman to superintendent. Today, the Department of Labor states that a four-year Construction Management degree is required and so that is accurate for the most part. So, a person with predominantly field experience is still reaching the glass ceiling unless they go out and start their own firm. In the specialty trade world this is very common, and they do quite well. So, in a specialty firm, it is blurrier because the glass ceiling is less common.  You do see foremen and superintendents receiving specialized training so those are the levels at which the blurring is occurring. Employers are relying on their employer associations, community colleges, and/or unions to provide such training. Just to clarify, the construction suit is a polo and jeans/slacks. If a dressier look is required for a meeting, a blazer is thrown over a polo.

Q: In what ways are those trends impacting university-level programs in fields like construction management/science at the instructional level?
A: Community college construction-management programs continue to see enrollments of working adults. As far as the university goes, for every one student coming from high school, one is also transferring in from a community college. I have three students graduating this spring who started at JCCC in Kansas with the intention to stop with their associate’s but continued to their bachelor’s. I am also seeing more students with 5-10 years of experience as a carpenter, glazier, etc., or managers from other fields altogether who are seeking the specialized four-year construction-management degree.

Q: What about enrollments in the degree-seeking realm? Is interest in that aspect of construction holding up?
A: The enrollment in our construction-management program, and programs across the country, have been steady for over 20 years. I remember thinking 20 years ago that we would surely saturate the market, but that hasn’t happened and it doesn’t appear to be a threat any time soon.

Q: What should parents consider when their high school student is bombarded with counselor messaging about four-year degrees, rather than more balanced guidance that encourages exploration of trades careers, as well?
A: Over the last 10 years, through industry outreach and other measures targeted at counselors, we have really made strides in getting counselors to promote careers in construction. However, they seem to be reserving it for particular students rather than the general student body. In other words, for the students that aren’t interested in continuing to learn in the classroom. Most high school students I visit with find our program on their own and not from listening to their parent or counselor. They are also considering multiple paths simultaneously. Many are taking advantage of A+ right out of high school, making sure they take classes that will transfer, and then join us as juniors. We should all encourage students to explore as many careers as possible, job shadow, complete internships, etc. 

Q: Are companies in construction-related lines incorporating more strategies to help their folks trained in trades develop broader-based management skills that have traditionally been filled by degree holders in operations, logistics, HR, etc.? That is, are they opening more pathways to advancement than in years past?
A: Absolutely. For over 20 years, associate-degree programs have had articulation agreements in place with the apprenticeship programs so students may acquire the management-based skills to advance and succeed. Many of the apprenticeship programs and trade associations, software and equipment vendors also provide training and certifications along these lines. If you are a core member of that company’s field crews, the sky is the limit. If you are not in the core, you will not receive those same long-term benefits.

Q: On the value proposition of a college degree vs. trades-based training: The latter may be better in the long run economically (immediate income, less debt), but isn’t that comparison valid only with liberal-arts degrees? Does the same hold true for trades careers vs. STEM lines?
A: College graduates with a four-year construction-management degree are in high demand and are receiving multiple offers in the $65,000-$75,000 range. With per diem that increases to $90,000 to over $100,000. So, if they’re spending $8,000 a year for four years, it pencils out. Many of our students work over the summers as interns earning $18-$25 per hour. 

Q: Does that hold true at the apprentice level?
A: If the student chooses the construction apprenticeship route they start earning an hourly wage immediately in the $18-26 per hour range that doubles over the four years. They don’t have any college debt so they truly do earn while they learn. If they are able to get in young, put in their 30 years, they can retire before their chosen craft impacts their bodies. The average first year apprentice age is 26, often because that’s when they start having kids and needing healthcare, so they are in their mid-50s by the time they reach retirement. Either of those make sense to me, however, I still talk to students in other programs that aren’t concerned about there being a job at the end of their education. It is hard for me to understand, but there are people that go to college to explore subjects they are passionate about. Then they worry about the debt they took on then.

Q: Our research for this issue shows that the oft-cited “400,000 trades openings” nationwide has been severely compressed over the past year or so. It’s still significant, but BLS now says there are about 260,000 construction-related openings nationwide. Is that a blip grounded in short-term economic conditions, or an indicator of some sea change in hiring practices and construction-specific fundamentals?
A: I never put much weight in those numbers because it changes from day to day. Project durations may be one year in length, but the average craft worker spends a week or maybe a month on a project. If they aren’t part of the company’s core group of craftsmen, they are laid off. Self-perform general contractors and specialty contractors have a core group of craftsmen. As they take on work, they may put on people for the particular job but then lay them off when their scope of work is over. They may be picked right back up by another employer or may sit on the bench a while. So as work picks up and the bench of journeymen workers is clear, contractors can hire apprentices for work that is happening now. As the work continues, contractors can take on more apprentices and journeymen through recruitment efforts. This is the best scenario. 

Q: Irrespective of the cause behind that change, what will the impact of it be for construction itself, trades education and university-level recruitment, retention and programming?
A: It all boils down to right now. Specialty contractors aren’t able to ramp up hiring ahead of a job they are not promised. We have the systems in place to recruit through apprenticeship programs and university programs based on the current need. If owners were able to sign contracts with general contractors and those general contractors were able to sign contracts with the subcontractors for work a year or two in the future, then subcontractors would be able to predict their day to day needs and ramp up their core contracts with the subcontractors for work a year or two in the future, then subcontractors would be able to predict their day-to-day needs and ramp up their core groups.