The only difference between mold today and mold of a hundred years ago," said Jim Pateidl, "has been a couple of court cases." And some of these, McGreevy added, have been class action lawsuits brought by the tenants in a single low income housing project. "If you have some mold in your bathroom," said a frustrated McGreevy, "do something about it, buy some Clorox."

Ridiculous as it might seem, mold is hardly a laughing matter. "It has potential of really hurting the industry," said Ernie Straub. The resulting litigation, added Grover Simpson, particularly in the sunbelt areas "has been significant."

High litigation costs lead to restricted insurance coverage, and, as Pat McCown observed, that puts pressure on contractors and owners. "The litigation door is open pretty wide," said McCown, "The question then is who has the deepest pockets."

Ernie Straub asked the architects present, "Is it filtering down to you guys what a serious problem it is?" Greg Nook agreed that it was. Given the attendant risks and costs, "We see owners saying we don't want to use EIFS." The added problem, says Pat McCown, is that "anything above EIFS is more expensive," as is the slower construction process needed to limit mold exposure.

As to whether there might be a political solution to the problem that did not seem likely although as Terry Dunn noted, national committees within the industry are looking at tort reform and the mold issue. Still, as McGreevy observed, "There is not one state that I know of that is planning to enact legislation to protect the designer or builder." Jerry Riffel added that he did not know of any caps that could affect the problem.

"To me, it's a lending problem," said Riffel of mold and other liability issues. Terry Dunn dissented. "Liability," he argued, "is ending with the deepest pockets." Greg Nook more or less confirmed Dunn's point. He commented that most designers do not bother to carry coverage. "Come after me personally. I'm an architect," he speculated as to what designers would say. "What are you go- ing to get? Go after the deep pockets."

Capitalization

Grover Simpson asked the participants about how the credit market for the construction industry shaped up.

From a Bank of America perspective, Bob Arthur noted, "My observation is that while there are relatively few deals, there are several banks lined up on each of them to finance them." He observed that interest rates are as favorable as they have been in 25 years, and that capital is plentiful. "From a construction perspective," he argued, "there is no lack of money to finance real estate projects that are well conceived."

Tom Cohen affirmed that interest rates are at an all time low and that for the right properties cap rates are at all time low as well. With the stock market down, "real estate looks like a primary investment."

Jerry Riffel wondered out loud whether the opportunities for investing in real estate extended to the plan that the city has configured for Downtown. "For the first time in my memory," said Riffel,

"I think we have a real plan that has both private interests and public interests looking at the same page." "It gets back to risk-reward and the viability of a project," said Bob Arthur. "I am highly incented to put money out this year. For a project that makes sense there is no lack of capital."

The question lingered as to just how many outstanding projects do make sense. Jeff Carson of UMB added the caveat, "It's tough to find deals and still adhere to your credit standards and credit policy strategy."

Terry Dunn added an additional caveat. He noted the tendency of national banks to declare sectors of the economy "in a challenging situation." This kind of declaration can tighten credit overnight.